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Old 02-07-06, 07:46 AM
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Default Anyone got any views on this hand?

Last night i busted out of our universitys tourny and i felt pretty sick about it. blinds were 200/400. my stack was 5500 and 8 players at the table, i pick up qq UTG and raise it up to 1500. all fold to the big blind (a very experiencd player) who calls the remaining 1100. flop comes kk4, he checks, i move all in 99% sure i have the best hand and wanting to end it right there and get called immediately by what turns out to be k6.

i personally couldn't believe he had k6 especially from that player i was almost certain he had a hand like 99 or j10. my preflop raise from UTG clearly represents a strong hand which is i think very likely to contain a king dominating his hand. Aswell as this even if he did hit his dream flop, say 2 pair, he can only win another 4000 from me which seems little reward for such a high pre flop risk.

Another thing i wondered was the fact that after the flop i was only going to be called if i were beat?! although in this situation i thought by moving all in i was luring a call from a hand such as 99 aswell as preventing my opponent drawing a free card such as an ace

Any views on this hand?
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Old 02-07-06, 08:49 AM
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That's a horrible flop when you have queens. I agree in your assessment that the pre-flop call there is likely to come from mid pockets or MAYBE suited connectors (but only a huge stack should be calling a raise with those). However, you also have to consider the possibility of a call from AK. Had your stack been bigger, I would have recommended making a 1/2 pot bet and then when you were called and/or raised you'd have a better idea of where you stood in the hand. However, given the size of your remaining stack vs. the pot, you really don't have that option - betting 1/2 pot commits you, so you might as well go all-in right there.

That said, your M is under ten when you start this hand (it's costing you 600 per round, you only have 5500 in chips) - anytime your M is under 10, all-in pre-flop is not a bad move at all, especially when you're UTG. You're likely to pick up the blinds, which pays for the blinds that are about to be on you.

I think you just got unlucky here, with the flop and the donkey calling your raise with such a hand. Unless he had an absolute monster stack, there's no justification for gambling like that.
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Old 02-07-06, 11:46 AM
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It sounds like you were just out of the money. Can you post some more info. Where was the Bubble? How many players had less chips than you? How much did he have at the start of the hand?

I would stay away from an All-in pre-flop when UTG with QQ (late position is much better). You have 7 players left to act and someone may have a monster hand or a large stack in late position may want to gamble and bust you.

I probably would have played a similar strategy pre-flop (raise 3BB-4BB) and hope to take the blinds or a favorable flop. With 7 other players, there's probably an A and K out there. A large stack may play A-Face, K-Face, AXs or KXs. So any flop showing with an over needs cautious play, especially if on the Bubble in tournament. I would not invest much more post-flop. Here are your options:
1) Putting the rest All-in is definitely high risk with an over on the board.
2) Since you are getting low on chips, making a small bet not an option.
3) Checking gives you a small chance of getting a 3rd Q, plus gives you the option of getting away from that hand. And the next hand you start BB with
4000 in chips.

When on the bubble in a tournament, survival is the key. I've had AA cracked by KQs and KK beaten by AA when going all-in on the Bubble. So now I play more cautious. I may not be winning tournies, but now I am making it to the money more often.

My $0.02,
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Old 02-07-06, 01:20 PM
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Although the flop isn't great for you it's decent most of the time. I would have thought the same about him not having a hand like K-6, I would have put him possibly on A_K or K_Q so I would never have went all in. I would have bet out a figure like 1,000 to see what he had. Then, since he most likely would have went up or all in I would have had to lay it down. Not to be so mean, but I think you played the hand very poorly. The bets weren't good and reads were not too hard to make. Oh well though...even I make horrible plays. hahaha
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Old 02-07-06, 04:35 PM
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Astros your the best
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Old 02-07-06, 07:07 PM
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So, I ran this by my buddy who's been tearing up the LAPC lately, and he said he'd go broke on the hand too, pretty much playing it the same way you did. So there ya go. Your opponent was simply a donkey.
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Old 02-07-06, 07:24 PM
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question is, what was his stack?

i reckon, in a way, if he had anything other than a king, eg 99 like u said,
he would have led out on the flop

the pot was 3200 i'm assuming because he was big blind (or 3400 if he was small blind)
so if he had 99, he would have bet out about half the pot, ie 1500, to see where he stood.
if u went all in over the top of him, he'd know he's beat and fold

so a check does seem a bit strange.

but considering your chip stack, i'm not sure what else you could have done.
betting half the pot is out of the question i reckon because that's more than a third of your remaining stack...

checking behind is also out of the question because he'd bet out on the flop with whatever and will put you in a tougher position.
besides if he had a hand worse than urs the check woulda given him a chance to draw out on you.

on you part, going all in was the only move possible.
but considering his check i reckon it was likely he was way ahead
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Old 03-02-06, 08:05 PM
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I think that your bet was a bit much on the flop. You actually want him to draw. You want to keep him in the hand. If he has a bare Ace he is drawing to 3 outs. Those are exactly the situations you want to let people draw. Was this online? It didn't seem like it. He probably would bet hard at that flop with a pp.
Your play wasn't bad just ran into a luckbox. Many people over defend their blinds. I do believe that your preflop raise should be in the 4 to 5 times the bb range not that 3.5 or so is that far off.
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Old 03-05-06, 02:18 PM
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you got very unlucky in this hand plain and simple. My advice is only about u going all in after the flop. You see your only going to get called or raised if your beat.. so u check there and see what he does .. play passively there if u think u have him call all the way through but don't put out any big bets like that. Be more careful with your stack and only put all in when you know your stack will be doubling.
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Old 03-05-06, 02:23 PM
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I think with k6 he wasnt feeling like giving up his BB, so you shoudl have bet 506 pre flop, when i have QQ's or 44 i DONT want any callers, or u should have just called the BB. But you were in shotty position.
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