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Old 12-04-05, 03:12 PM
jrs0507 jrs0507 is offline
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Default Why does everyone hate the Rivercard?

I hear a lot of people complain about the the rivercard. How they lost on the river ( I got rivered) and always get outdrawn.

This is what I think about it:

Everybody knows Texas Hold Em No Limit is played with 5 cards on the board if at least someone calls or everybody checks. If a player calls then there will be other cards on the board that all players can use. Those cards can give one of your opponents the best hand. Some people are surprised that this can happen and start complaining about their opponents play. Especially when someone else wins with the rivercard they are amazed by their opponents awful play and start to call him/her names.

Ive got no respect whatsoever for someone who complains all day every week about how the rivercard beat him. If not for the first ten times you dont understand that a rivercard can beat you then you need to lose a 100 times. Everyone has his own playing style. Everyone plays different. They wont do the things you want them to do, they will do the opposite. And there are no bad plays, but I agree that there are bad players. But in my book bad players are people who cant handle a loss and start complaining.

You may lose more often after a river but thats logical, there are 9 players at a table. If you play like you should then the total amount you won making the best hand on the river should be as much as your losses on that same river. Its all statistics and if youre a good player you would even win more money by your betting syle.

Next time if you get beat on the river dont blame someone else or the cards, blame yourself for betting too much or for playing your hand wrong. Youre the one fully responsible for everything you do. You dont have to go All In or call an All In. Always keep all the possibilities open and take them into consideration when making a move. Getting beat or win ont the river is no shame and it certainly is no shame to chase. A chaser always risks his chips by calling bets. If he gets rewarded on the river, he gets insulted as if it is not a part of poker. If you get beat by the rivercard accept it, let it go and move on. Its all part of the game. Adjust your playing style so it doesnt happen too often. Include all possibilities and be careful.
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Old 12-04-05, 04:07 PM
AGreen AGreen is offline
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Good post, I like seeing that someone else realizes that draws and such can end up hitting the river. People get more frustrated with riverbeats than turnbeats because they increase their chances to win after surviving the turn, but they're still going to lose sometimes. You're right, just get over a river loss and think about the next hand.
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Old 12-19-05, 09:55 PM
Arjonius Arjonius is offline
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It's an oversimplification, but I think a significant part of why some people hate the river is that they think - or want to think - in a binary fashion. So, when they get in a situation where they are say a 75% favorite, they expect to win. Period. Not win three and lose one.
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Old 12-20-05, 04:34 AM
Slayre Slayre is offline
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It is not the river card... it is getting beat by hands that should have never made it to the flop.... and it is not hate... it is frustration... and it is not as rampant as you might think...

Chasing the river in the short run can be quite profitable, but, in the long run, the chaser will always end up losing...

But all in all, your right.. 'its poker', and bad beats are a part of the game... one must take them along with the good and continue on... there should never be any reason to name call in poker... barring playing with hellmuth ofcourse..
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Old 12-29-05, 03:00 PM
Arjonius Arjonius is offline
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Yeah, I can see where Hellmuth would be upset after losing to an unknown like me.
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Old 01-06-06, 06:20 PM
KoOKoO KoOKoO is offline
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Why does everyone hate the rivercard?
At first, the enemys, who hit the nut at the river, don't hate that
But the really problem is not that you beated with the rivercard and lost that pot. The problem is: if your play was good, can you play that(and other) hand same again in the future or get crazy?
The problem when you don't see the odds, and try beat your enemy at the river...
Tilt. I don't hate the rivercard, I hate the tilt...
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Old 01-06-06, 06:34 PM
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nxtyear nxtyear is offline
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i can't quite remember but i think there was a thread about bad beat that you guys might want to read as well.

on another note.
why the river card?

firstly, we assume people hate the river card because they are ahead before that.
secondly... there is no second. that explains it all

people hate the river card because the only thing worse that could happen to them is lose due to that card.
they were ahead before, hence the pot was supposed to be theirs,
the river card can't make them win more money. but it can definitely make you lose the pot.
think about it.

river card can only be hated, not liked, as it is a source of loss, not gain..
(since they have already got the gains from other cards and the plays made)

now of course this is a different case if you are always the underdog going to the river.
in that case you'd hit everytime and gain all the time...
but people tend to forget that most of the time.
they only remember the times when until the river card they were winning, but the river card comes out and they lose
(and of course they forget all the times that their hand holds up on the river... because "that's what should happen because i made an amazing play")


funny i write this comment so rationally...
seeing as i'm on the worst losing streak recently, and i freakin hate the river card myself and can't deal properly with it emotionally....
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Old 01-14-06, 05:07 PM
beriac beriac is offline
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Default Good post, Arjonius

I think Arjonius hit it right on the head.

People think binarily. So when they're >50% to win a hand, they expect a win, especially if it's 2/3 or better. Anything less than a win is a 'suck out' in that circumstance, right? It's the same thing mentally as expecting more from pocket pairs than they're able to deliver.

Also, I'd add that many players who would call themselves skilled make most of their key decisions pre-flop and post-flop, while more than a few calling-station-types will wait for the river to consider folding because they drastically overweight the probabilities of drawing. Well, in doing so, skilled players are not making use of the river themselves in making their betting decisions, so it's more often a negative surprise than a positive (if you've got a great hand, like trips, you often have less outs than your opponent and your hand is more likely to get worse than better relative to said opponent).

I think it's a combination of those two things. After all, if you're praying for a river card then you shouldn't have been in the pot right (great pot odds aside)? Well, then you're less likely to be happy with the river than mad!
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Old 01-22-06, 07:50 PM
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BSgutshot BSgutshot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slayre
It is not the river card... it is getting beat by hands that should have never made it to the flop.... and it is not hate... it is frustration... and it is not as rampant as you might think...

Chasing the river in the short run can be quite profitable, but, in the long run, the chaser will always end up losing...

But all in all, your right.. 'its poker', and bad beats are a part of the game... one must take them along with the good and continue on... there should never be any reason to name call in poker... barring playing with hellmuth ofcourse..
That is an excellent point. I don't mind losing on the river, but if someone is moving in on me with 9-4 and then hitting 2 pair on the river to beat my pocket queens that will get to me really quick.

The river card is not the problem here, it's the player that is the problem. If they move all in with a quality hand and beat me, that is all well and good, but if they are moving in with cards that I wouldn't use in a game of crazy 8's, that's a different story.
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Old 02-05-06, 01:20 PM
benjahuna benjahuna is offline
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I don't hate the rivercard, but I understand exactly why I'm bothered by it sometimes. That provides me some insight into why others might be bothered.

I've had many hands (live and online) in which I was ahead preflop, made a good raise, put good money in on the flop, even all in, the cards got flipped, I had the best hand, turn was okay, and then I was outdrawn on the river. To make it so far and be outdrawn basically at the last second, particularly when I outplayed an inferior opponent that just played all kinds of crap, it doesn't particularly feel fair even though it is (because I understand the game enough to realize I accept what happens is fair).

It's the worst way to lose and nobody even likes to lose.
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