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Old 03-12-06, 05:25 PM
scooby555 scooby555 is offline
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Do you think when you have best hand after the flop but you see a possible str8 on fluch draw out there that u should go all in to force the playeer with that posssibilite to either risk all or large portion of his or her chip stack on a draw or do you slowwwwwwwwwwww play iy hoping it doesnt hit to get a higher chip win I would like to here a good point on both sides of this issue.....

Usually i will make a large bet first time then if the card i suspect will beat me does not hit the turn I go all-in to force the to fold becuase I just dont plain like the river anymore!!!
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Old 03-12-06, 05:41 PM
Merkiwaters Merkiwaters is offline
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that's basically what i do. there is no point in giving your opponent a free look at the next card which could possibly beat you. you need to bet big and force them out and make them make a big decision on what to do.
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Old 06-20-06, 02:30 PM
ScottMc ScottMc is offline
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Flush draws and straight draws are scary when you have a big pair but you also need to know what the odds are of it hitting.

lets say you have QcQs and only one other person is in the hand. He called your 4x bet preflop and is in the hand with you. The flop comes down 10h 9h 8s. There is now a flush and a straight draw on the board that beats your Q and one of your outs for a set is dead if the Qh falls completing the flush but giving you a very powerful set that is hard to get away from. You need to know a little about your opponent in this spot.

First is he the type that will call you large bet preflop with any two cards? This is only known if you pay attention to his game and have a good read ( I will constantly preach that paying attention to the game is the most vital thing you can do) If he is a super tight type of player he is not going to be in the hand after your raise with the straight cards he would need for this, QJ. It is not a hand a tight player would just call with preflop into a bet.

Second, has he been calling lots of bets to see more cards and if so what has been the size of bet he folds to. This real important because Tight aggressive players will fold only to bets that put them out of the range of odds they need but a loose player will call almost anything if he has a draw and thinks he can win.

Third what to you stand to gain? Moving all in here is only going to win you money if you get a caller and even worse lose you all your money if you ran into a bigger preflop hand or some one hit 2 pair or a set.


Now that you know your opponent do you know what you should do. Well a straight draw is more than likely open ended so that is 8 outs. For him to be open ended with the hand he would need a jack in his hands so that gives you AJ and KJ, calling a big preflop with either of these hands is suicidal at best KJ is simply to weak to call with and AJ is easily dominated by AK/Q so know you player will tell you. Loose there is a chance, tight there isn't. if it is however either of these hands it makes you a bigger favorite than you think. they have 8 outs or about a 32% shot at making it but 2 of there outs are in your hand! so they only have an 24% or 3-1 one dog shot at making the straight here, more importantly if they pair their under card the J YOU MAKE A STRAIGHT! So all in is not really going to get you anything but a fold but a good value bet might make you more chips. YOU FIRE OUT A BET ABOUT HALF THE POT AND HOPE HE CALLS OR RERAISES HERE. You make more money and you are still the favorite.

The flush draw is a killer too. They have 9 outs for the flush and since they called your reraise they could be holding AK or AQ of the suit. Ah Qh is not so bad because once again a tight player will fold this preflop but a average to loose player will call. AQ also has an over card though the ACE has 3 outs with the 9 flush that can beat you making it about a coin flip at this point. AK is a BIG likely hood here and worse it also gives them 2 over cards to you. 9 outs for the flush and 6 outs for the overs to beat you... guess what 15 outs makes them a 60% favorite in the hand and it is a big likely hood they are on a hand like that if they just called. You need to price them out by betting big but not all in. ALL-IN here is going to get you killed if the player knows half of anything about poker because all they need is 2-1 on their money to call.

The bet I would make here is about 2/3rds the pot size for value, this also gives you a chance to fold if one of the 15 cards comes out.
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Old 06-25-06, 02:41 PM
Arjonius Arjonius is offline
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Betting all in to push someone off a flush or open-ended flush draw is excessive. Mathematically, about one-third of the pot is enough to make calling negative expected value. It's only slightly negative, so quite a few people will call anyway, so half to 3/4 of the pot is more likely to induce a fold. And if that will get them to fold, why bet more except to gratify your ego?

The only time pushing gains is when the opponent makes a really bad call and then fails to draw out on you. It loses not only when they draw out on you, but also when they call because they had the better hand anyway; e.g. trips, an overpair plus a draw, etc.
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Old 06-26-06, 08:35 AM
uFearMeDntu uFearMeDntu is offline
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If you feel your opponent is on a definite draw, as Arjonius said going all-in is excessive, betting 3/4 to half of the pot amount should most likely throw your opponent of there possible draw unless there donkey's. If this doesn't happen and your opponent hits there card, remember you have played the correct poker method and your opponent has hit the nuts by getting lucky.
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Old 06-26-06, 05:40 PM
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Lytspeed Lytspeed is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uFearMeDntu
If you feel your opponent is on a definite draw, as Arjonius said going all-in is excessive, betting 3/4 to half of the pot amount should most likely throw your opponent of there possible draw unless there donkey's. If this doesn't happen and your opponent hits there card, remember you have played the correct poker method and your opponent has hit the nuts by getting lucky.

Sounds like good advice. I'll keep that in mind the next time I'm in that situation.
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Old 06-27-06, 06:35 AM
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Thinkerbell Thinkerbell is offline
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In this situation I generally recommend bursting into tears or passing out. Seems to work for me....
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Old 06-27-06, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thinkerbell
In this situation I generally recommend bursting into tears or passing out. Seems to work for me....

It's a good thing I wasn't taking a drink of my soda when I read that.
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Old 06-27-06, 02:26 PM
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Thinkerbell Thinkerbell is offline
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What, you got a problem with shooting soda out of your nose?
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Old 06-27-06, 07:08 PM
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Lytspeed Lytspeed is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thinkerbell
What, you got a problem with shooting soda out of your nose?

No, I'm pretty good at it, actually. It's the person sitting across from me that usually has a problem with it.
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